How is my beauty pitch deck? Is my brand ready for investment? Where do I go when I’m looking to raise investment?
These are some of the buzzing questions we are often asked from our members and community at The Clean Hub. This is not an accident, as the natural and indie beauty industry has seen record growth in M&A and investment over the past few years. This week on Clean Chat, we were lucky enough to interview two significant fund managers (Jana Bakunina from Silvergate Investments and Manish Karani from Bran Investments), on what they would look for in a beauty brand before they invest. They both share tremendous industry knowledge in start-ups, beauty, as well as pitch decks and we were over the moon to have them on!
Jana founded Silvergate Investments earlier this year with Waheed Alli, (the founding Chairman of ASOS) to help women and minorities raise early stage investment. Manish works as the Investment Manager of Bran Investments, whom invest in green companies that show great social impact. You may have heard about the work they have done with the beauty brand, Optiat, at Pitch & Plant.
This Clean Chat podcast interview is packed with helpful tips and tricks that are a must know for all indie beauty brands looking to raise investment. From all of the tips and tricks we chat about, we’ve pulled out 3 key things that must be included in your beauty pitch deck.
An outstanding and relevant story
Your story is important for more than one reason. Firstly, your brand story is a way for consumers to resonate with your product. It allows a potential customer to get a better understanding of how your product/s would fit (and is needed) in their lives. Secondly, your story attests to your ability to overcome challenges – something that investors see as a must needed attribute in an entrepreneur. It will also show investors that you have more than a financial interest, but a genuine vested interest in your business succeeding, ultimately allowing you to be more successful in the tough first few years.
Spend the money on growth
How do you plan to spend the money? Investors want to see that the majority of the money is going to help you to fill larger orders and grow market share. Be sure to include a plan on how you will be spending the money as well as your go-to-market strategy. You definitely want to also add some very specific KPIs that are relevant to your particular products and not the beauty industry as a whole. For example, if your products treat people with freckles in the US – how big is the freckle market in the US and how do you plan to tackle that market?
Stand out from the crowd
Investors see hundreds if not thousands of pitch decks in a short period of time. How do you make sure that yours gets noticed among the crowd? Try and think of an inventive way to get your brand noticed by the investor. Maybe make them a song?…okay maybe too much! But don’t be afraid to put yourself out there. Jana from Silvergate Investments has also written a blog that covers how you can stand out in front of investors. You can check it out here!
Now on to the show!
Raquel: Hi there and welcome to Clean Chat. Today we have a really hot topic in the beauty industry. It’s talking all about investment in your beauty brand and I am so excited to have on our show today a couple of top industry experts to talk about their experience in investing in beauty brands and what they look for in a pitch deck. So first off, we have Manish from Bran Investments. You may have heard of Bran Investments, as they are one of the investors in pitch and plant. And we also have the fabulous Jana from Silvergate Investments. They invest in fast growing and scalable start-ups with great stories and innovative technology. And we really like them because they prioritise businesses led by brilliant women and or minority founders because such opportunities are overlooked and under-funded. So thank you both for coming onto the Clean Chat today, it’s a pleasure. So Manish, we’ll start with you. I gave you a small introduction but really quickly, can you tell me about yourself and Bran Investments?
Manish: Sure, thanks a lot first of all for having us. I’ve seen the previous speakers and they are all very exciting. I know a few of them. So, first of all, thanks a lot or having us. Umm, just a brief introduction on Bran Investments, so we are, I would say, a boutique family office. I again, I would suggest that we are very impact in what we invest in. We sort of do have two types of mandates. Our first mandate is sort of on the impact. And that obviously does fall under a lot of plant based businesses and in which the family that I represent have a keen liking and sharing capacity to sort of improve that across the world. And I think the second aspect is more on the education and health care space. Health care is something which the family know very well. And it’s something which we want to continue to focus on. And yes, of course we have done niche sort of events, plant based events, wit the likes of the vevolution. Um, where yes you rightly corrected, we did give some grants to Optiat and obviously we did a recent one where we gave the winners up to £100,000 across three businesses. So that’s us.
Raquel: Awesome, okay. And Jana, could you tell us a bit about yourself as well and Silvergate Investments?
Jana: Yea, sure. Well first of all thank you. You already made a great introduction. So thank you very much for that. In addition to that, I’d just say that we are a fairly new fund. We only launched in February of this year. And I think in addition to looking at companies which are backed by technology and really scalable, I would also say that we love consumer brands. So anything that is probably digital in native, compelling, really relevant and authentic. So it doesn’t have to be necessarily a tech business. It doesn’t have to be, you know, a market place or anything like that. We genuinely love consumer products because we understand them, and we, you know we think that consumers are excited about them. Which is why they…if done correctly they can grow and bring fantastic returns.
Raquel: Awesome! So Jana, based on that, have you invested or have you worked with any beauty brands in the past? And what sorts of things do you look for?
Jana: So we haven’t yet invested in beauty brands. But we…I have over the last six months or so come across a few really interesting and exciting brands. Also came across beauty brands which I wasn’t as excited about. And here is the thing, I think…you know I feel today, we already have a good understanding of what is good for us in terms of food to eat. And clearly, this translates into other areas…so beauty, skincare, hair care…And I think I would love to invest in a brand that really addresses that market. That really chimes with consumers today who are very savvy, very conscious, who like a brand which talks to them. And I think that the products that I have come across…so some of them…where perhaps very good products but perhaps the story was strong enough or the other way around. You know, the kind of idea to tell a story was great, but perhaps there wasn’t enough traction for us. It was simply too early. But I think that…you know for me, it has to be authentic, it has to tell a great story. It has to be relevant. I mean, I think these are kind of broadly the criteria. And then of course it depends on the, you know, the brand, the proposition itself.
Raquel: Right, so you mentioned traction. What sort of traction are you looking for from a company before you invest in them?
Jana: So we prefer to invest in something that has already kind of got going…if I were to phrase it this way. So we don’t invest on paper. So I would say, you know I don’t want to kind of give numbers you know I’m looking for certain sales figures. However, yes I do want to see sales, I do want to see you know, what the brand is doing. So for example if someone is saying, you know I’m sort of primarily doing direct to consumer sales, so I want to see that. If someone is saying, well I’m focusing on distribution via third parties, then I do want to see that they are, you know not just in some kind of one store in Brooklyn. But maybe they work with Ulta, or they have many different distributors who are you know reordering their stock. So I would probably want to see at least, kind of…you know, some good presence. So if we are talking about digital native brands, then I’m looking kind of the social media, the storytelling…and if I don’t see the presence there, but the product is great….for me something is missing. So there is…I don’t know if I’m supposed to be naming names of given examples, but lets just try to be generic. So I came across a hair care brand that was really exciting and it really started from the community that they managed to accumulate via Instagram, via YouTube videos where they launched a lot of how-to videos of how to look after that particular type of hair. You know and I could really see the engagement they have. And you know if they are telling me, if they came up with an example of you know we see a lot of repeat business so I actually want to see kind of those numbers. I want to see… because you know like sales tell you not just that the business is serious, you know like proper business, but it also tells you that the price is right for example, right? Because that is quite important. The you know, I want to know, kind of what’s your hero product? What sells well? Where are you going to expand? So you know, when I talk to brands like this, I can see that they already have nailed their product, their strategy, of course they will make mistakes, you know we all do. But I want them to have a clear path. To you know, how they go from a to b. What are they doing? You know, what are the points that are going to verify? But ultimately, you know… you asked me about traction. Yes, I do want to see sales. I want to see it growing.
Raquel : You want to see what their path is and if they have already strategized a path. And they are talking with retailers if that is their distribution model. Or that if they are D2C they are already starting with funnels, and that they have a plan. So would you say that…one of the problems I think is that a lot of brands want investment really early on. You would probably suggest that as a start-up, until you’ve hit a certain traction, you probably shouldn’t try to get investment with someone like yourself? First family and friends, and secondly go to someone such as yourself to work with. Would you suggest that?
Jana: Yes. I mean, you know…I know it is hard because it is a sort of chicken and egg isn’t it? Because on the one hand, sort of I want you to show growth, and on the other hand I’m not giving you money until you show me some growth. And you know you need to make some investment somewhere in order to put your product out there. But I think that, if done properly, you can really create a product line which is you know limited but effective. You know, are you say focusing on the basics? Are you focusing on something which is complimentary to a range of you know skincare, or makeup or hair care that is going to be a staple but your product will bring something extra. Then what you can do is really focus on that limited product range and then really try to make it work. So I came across another brand which is sort of natural skin care brand…loads of beautiful soaps, beautiful oils for skincare out of New York. And you know, before I knew it, they sort of did a massive rebrand. Which I didn’t think it was necessary. You know, you look at how do you spend that money? Because I know entrepreneurs bootstrap it, but so I want you to focus on the right things. So of course, the product is the number one thing. You can’t argue with that. But then in this day and age you want a story, you want a target to the right community. I don’t want your product to fit all. I mean, maybe it is ultimately. But I want you to find the right target customer. I want you to be able to speak their language, and I want you to show me that that proposition that you had. You know, you are saying….okay let’s make this up now. Oh my god I created a new skincare range using cannabis. You know, this is amazing, it does x , y,and z…here are the benefits. And you have, with your limited product range….I don’t know, maybe six products or something. You have created something that has really generated sales. Your first cohort of customers rave about you. And you are ready for the kind of, you know, you are ready to scale. You now effectively are looking for investment to be able to fill in really big orders. You know, so you’re looking for…so you say to me, look this is all here. So what I need now is working capital. And that is something that I would love to back.
Raquel: Awesome, that is such a great and helpful answer. Thank you Jana. And one of the other questions I get a lot from beauty brands is what do I have in my pitch deck? And I’m sure you both get a lot of pitch decks. So I’ll start with you Manish. Could you tell me what you look for in a stand out pitch deck?
Manish: Sure. I think just to go back in though terms of Jana’s conversation I want to make just a few points on that.
Manish: Because you know, I think there are a lot of overlaps between us. A lot of the stuff she does say, it does work for us as well. What I think is really important for us, is actually…if we had a look at our actual entrepreneur base we have about twenty portfolio companies now. About fifty to sixty percentage of those have actually…and they have obviously raise investment from us….have a story, like Jana mentioned, they have a story to tell. They’ve often have started a business based on a personal experience that they have faced. I mean we’ve sort of invested in a restaurant business and one individual did set up a plant-based business and that was due to a food attack they had many years ago and they said actually I want to change the way that food is created and they became vegan and that’s why we have supported them. For us, it’s very important that…fine its great that someone sets up a business, however we find that if its personal or something that they have actually experienced, then during those tougher times….because a business is very difficult….maybe two, three, or five years down the line, if there is that personal drive, we see that those individuals will succeed to a greater extent than those that may have not had that personal experience. And so that is something in which, if you ask me about a turnover figure, then yes its great that they have a turnover figure and obviously they have proven the product or the service. But the way in which we traditionally work is, if we believe in the individual, because often individuals are the most important things, or partners or a great team…if they haven’t really hit those turnover figures yet, however we really believe in them and there is a personal story and they are projecting that story well, we often do a smaller investment at an earlier stage. And then say, look subject to you hitting certain targets then hopefully we can add value to that in terms of turnover in all of our networks and all of our other portfolio companies and investors as well, then we would always look to follow on. So we are quite unique I guess in that sense. But I think just to add, you know, and this kind of follows onto the next question. We do get a lot of pitch decks, but surprisingly enough, I haven’t really received anything within the beauty space to be honest.
Raquel: Oh really, okay.
Manish: Which is quite interesting. Uh, you know maybe I’m not doing my job really well (laughs). But no I haven’t received too much in the beauty space. I see more sort of technology, you know proc tech, and sort of medical tech, and a lot of consumer facing brands in the food and beverage industries. Things I have received in the beauty space is probably through sort of other intermediaries, such as crowdcube. Crowdcube and crowdfunding seems to be quite popular with the beauty brands. Maybe I’m wrong. Raquel, you would know that better than me. But that’s just what I wanted to add on that point.
Raquel: Okay that’s great thank you. And Jana, have you seen any beauty pitch decks or do you have any…what would you say would be a stand out pitch deck for a beauty brand? What are you looking for? I know we kind of discussed traction and team. But what are the must haves?
Jana: Yes I mean, so I do receive beauty pitch decks. And I you know, pitch decks from other industries. I think the formula here is kind of the same regardless of which industry you come from. It has to be pretty concise. It has to definitely explain very clearly what you do and why. I mean with consumer products it’s really simple. You know, this is no rocket science. I think I would expect, I mean definitely what Manish was saying about the strength of the entrepreneur. Of course, you know that is a must. And of course, even before I meet someone there has to be…and this is no particular order – there has to be page on the founder or founders, so that I understand, for example….can this person in future scale this? Can this person manage a team? I recently went to an event (laughs). People will probably guess which one it was, but it was basically, kind of a highly prominent pitch around in the industry. Where a lot of entrepreneurs were…so there were twenty -our entrepreneurs pitching, and the in-joke was that how many PhD and masters degrees people have? And my question is, this super clever laboratory people as I would like to call them, you know, can they manage a team? Can they be commercial? Can the pitch? I don’t know, maybe they can? So, so I would definitely like to see a slide or a couple of slides on the team, on the founder, so that I can get a background and experience does this person have? Even if it’s a first time entrepreneur. But how can that person really deliver the vision? So then, obviously everyone includes slides on the market and the market potential. And you know, that’s great. But that tends to be quite generic. So for example, one would say beauty market is x, I mean this is neither here nor there. You know, I would prefer something a bit more nuanced you know. If someone can find, for example, data on what is the, you know, organic beauty market or something…going back to my previous example, I have no idea how I came up with it by the way but you know (laughs)…the cannabis beauty market, or something. But you know, show some relevance. You know, if you are say, producing cosmetics only for people of colour for example, you know, well then try and sort of estimate that. Again, say if you are based in the states, let’s start with that market, because it’s not like you are going to pitch to people in Ghana on day one. So, it has to be sort of relevant. Everything you say, it has to be relevant. So what is the story, how are you going to get to the market, what is your magic ingredients, okay, what will make you stand out? And of course, you know, if we are talking about consumer products…so beauty, skincare, and hair care in this instance, I mean this is consumer marketing. So that pitch has to look beautiful as well as you know, be informative because you know, we are talking about the packaging for your products that kind of tells the story by itself. So, you know everything has to sort of be in line with that I think. Because it kind of, you know, its all those little details that I’m not taking in consciously, you know. I don’t have some sort of tick box exercise here. Subconsciously though, I’m taking everything in. The words, the style, the spelling mistakes? So that has to be….so I think something like the typography is a great example. So I was looking at something today. I don’t know if it’s a recent one but I just read it. You know, I was sent an article and it listed sixty female entrepreneurs and their businesses. Great. So I liked one of their businesses so I went to the link and I went to the website and you know, we are talking about a grown up product and yet they use that sort of funny girly font.
Jana:Which was kind of limiting I would say the potential of that product. So you know, the product was fantastic. Really innovative, because I wanted to know more about it out of the sixty businesses I clicked on maybe two different links. And yet, I went to this website and I felt that that doesn’t, that’s sort of, you know, it’s a bit girly. It sort of limits the potential…you know we still will probably get in touch with them but….So I think its kind of, well you know I think there are so many sources of where you can do your relevant pitch books. So hopefully I when I’m focusing on the typography and founder background its just adding a bit something different which someone might want to think about.
Raquel: That’s great. And I think from a practical standpoint, do you want a very concise ten slides pitch deck and then maybe, you know, some additional information if you request it at first? Or how does that work? Do you find that sometimes you get a bit overload with information on a pitch deck?
Jana: Umm, so definitely I try not to have meetings until I really like something. I mean sometimes meetings just happen. Umm, but as a rule I would say that I look at the pitch deck…so if someone sort of sent me an email I will always say – do you have a pitch deck? So I’ll look at that. And that, yes, I think ten pages is great. I don’t need a hundred pages. But I think it has to, you know, it has to kind of definitely tell me: what is the product, you know what’s the potential with the market with the, you know, the story, how are you going to get there? What’s the strategy? And you know, any kind of the KPIs that are relevant. That help you know not just say…I’m trying to think of an example of a bad KPI. Something that is not really helping to tell a story, its something generic. But if you say to me, you know, well our kind of average price….so the price range for our products let’s say is $10-$30 and average order value from our website is $60, now I’m thinking this is incredible. That means that every buyer would buy at least two top valued products from you. Or perhaps the whole bundle of them. And that, that’s pretty exciting. Or, for example if you tell me something like – our average order value went up from $40 last year to $50 this year. You know, this is exciting so you know have you increased your range? Have you told a story, you know, if you bundle these three products you will get really exciting results for your skin or for your hair? So, the reasons we like numbers is because numbers sort of tell stories or help corroborate your story that you are telling in words.
Raquel: Right, well perfect. Thank you! Manish, would you agree with that as well? Is that what you would say as well…do you get pitched…I know you mentioned you don’t get very many beauty pitches but do you get overkill um….and the reason I’m asking is people have asked me to look over their pitch deck and it will be twenty-five pages long. And I’m like, that’s not what they want to see day one. So, what would you think about that.
Manish: Yea, I mean….I come from a venture capital, private equity banking background and I’ve done these big information memorandums where you have forty-five or fifty pages and I think, you know fine, there is space for them. You know its not that excessive. But its’ probably not something that I would send over introductory email. Unless the investor, so like for example, us if you sort of get away with a ten page slide deck with the key information. And if I want to get more I’ll say, well thanks a lot, is there any sort of information that you can highlight on x, y, and z. And if they do send that through, or even if there is a link to a sort of drop box that has, you know, key information – so you know, market opportunity, or a larger deck where they have talked about things like Jana mentioned – like increasing share of wallet, or even having things like the advanced assurance document there, which often people would…you know entrepreneurs miss when they look into EIS files or SEIS filing. I think these, in the back of your hand is something in which I think is really, really good. And actually it sets the precedent from the entrepreneur as well. So that’s my sort of two pence on the sort of pitch decks. I mean, in terms of the shortened one, if someone was to send something through….I mean, I’ve often been asked this question actually and I’ve tried to come up with an answer where you know, its constant. Because it can…you know it can sort of depend on the mood…um…of me sometimes, being honest. I think, but I think…let’s assume I’m in a rush and I get a pitch deck and I open it up, I think having that sort of one line, or having that mission or vision as that sort of opening you know, page of the logo or whatever is really important to me. Because you know, you can learn from that line what the entrepreneur is and how big they really want to get their company to. As I said, we invest in people. We want and invest in things which we believe are bigger than us. And actually we are trying to make positive impact to the world, really. You know for example, Jana, and I hope you don’t mind me saying but we invest in Olio…
Manish: It’s a food sharing app. That’s what it is. But actually, their main principal is to stop food waste. If someone just writes on their first line, we want to stop food waste, straight away that is an attractive thinking because its huge. It’s not just sharing food. Um, I mean if you look at…I was reading this earlier…if you look at Airbnb’s mission statement, uh, I’ll just read it out – to connect millions of people in real life all over the world through a community marketplace. So that you can belong anywhere. I mean, that’s fantastic. You read that and you’re thinking, I know what the founders are really like and what they are about and its something bigger than them, you know. It would draw me to look at slide two. And if I had to talk about the specific slides, you have that mission statement, you have that vision which is great. And then obviously I think you go into a deep dive on the product or the service. And then I think for me traction is important. So that would be if you have got any types of sales or any margins or just, you know, some basic information on what has been achieved, key suppliers or distributors in beauty. And then I’m going to look at probably team, market opportunity, and I think the final thing is how will you get there? So if your market opportunity is, I don’t know, £100 million, how are you going to get to that 5% or whatever that figure is of the market opportunity um within five years. And what key triggers for you to get there? Um, so I think that’s sort of my view on it.
Raquel: That’s super helpful, thank you. And then going back to you Jana, I have a question that I get quite often is…you know all of these beauty brands they need money to grow and they are stuck in a position and they are wondering so where….how do we approach people when looking for investment? I know there is usually a process that takes place. You know, maybe you send a pitch deck and then you follow up with a call. Um, I guess this is a two-pronged question so number one: how would you suggest to beauty brands they meet with investors and secondly what is the process like for them?
Jana: Okay, well for us its really simple. So I would expect, so our website Silvergate Investments, we actually have a tab which has a PDF link where I almost kind of write what is it that we expect to see in a pitch deck. So its kind of super easy, and it doesn’t have to be a pitch deck. Frankly, if you send me an application in a word document or in an email, probably not as attractive as a presentation but you know, as long as it answers all of the questions that I want to, you know, know about that’s fine. But of course, for beauty brands, you know I would want to see the products number one and that’s what I typically receive. Great. And I think, you know, so the process is simple because I typically meet with my business partner once a week sometimes less often if we are not in the same place. And we will discuss opportunities at the sort of fairly early stage, so straight away I can come back to the founders perhaps two weeks later and say its not for us and we’ll try to give some sort of constructive feedback to explain why not. So maybe its, you know, too early, that sounds a little bit vague but to be a bit more helpful than that another reason…so recently we rejected something because it’s a new, it’s a new beauty skincare brand, you know the products sort of…I mean it was sort of quite generic looking. You know, it was quite high-end serums brand. I think the products probably are great. I mean I started using one, I mean it seems great, just…I just couldn’t see how this product would be able to stand out in the market. You know it was quite boring, quite generic, no story, no social media presence. I think they’ve invested a lot of money, and took a lot of time to build those products to make then. But then they kind of haven’t done that first hurdle, to think about writing the story, the target audience. So for me, it was missing completely. Another example is a brand that is here in London and um I think their USP is that they make everything using just four ingredients. And think it does some great things but actually the packaging looked a little bit simple. Not simple but kind of childish. It was, rather than um, trying to say, you know, we are organic, we are simple in terms of number of ingredients, but we have very good ingredients. Quite great ingredients actually. But the packaging looked a bit amateur, like you are doing it in the back of your kitchen, you know. And for me, that is not something that I would kind of help to grow. Because I think the perception will always remain that it is being sold somewhere at the farmers market. You know, which is great but we are not in that sort of business. So, so I….like Manish was saying about kind of like a virtual data room with all sorts of documents. I mean, I would make a preliminary decision way earlier than that. For me, product and the ten pages are good enough to then say, okay I want to hear more. You know, have a meeting if it is possible face to face. Or have a call. And then I will sort of think about it afterwards with more questions. But I think we are trying to not waste time and reply very quickly.
Raquel: Okay, great. So its just as easy for Bran Investments. I know you just send in a pitch deck. So you would agree as well? Its about that same process…well it’s a bit of a different process.
Manish: Yea. Well yea, I think you upload the presentation. Even though we don’t get a lot of beauty brands, we do get quite a few presentations. So obviously we try to apply if we can. And obviously yes, the other way is often through referrals. And some of our entrepreneurs which we have invested in some people that we know often introduce us, which is a always a good thing. And we do obviously work with other advisors that provide us with presentations and opportunities. So, there is scope for that. So yea, I think those are the main things.
Raquel: Great, okay. And then my last question. I’ll start with you Jana. Do you have any words of advice for a beauty brand looking for investment?
Jana: Well, probably tons of advice. But let’s just keep it to one thing, And I think that, you know, try to stand out. So when you send that email to a potential investor, I think I even wrote a blog about this point, where someone sent me an email and said, would you like to go for a walk along the Thames? I live in London, so not just like random. I just thought, yes! It was, you know, it was sort of…it was sometime in Spring and I thought, you know, I don’t normally do that. I don’t normally meet people. You know, I’d like to see the presentation first. But it was so unusual that they didn’t say, I’d like to meet you for a coffee, I’d like to buy you a coffee or something like that. Like, would you like to walk along the Thames? And I thought, well I live, well the office is literally three-minutes walk away and I thought. And we actually…so I met this guy and we actually did a loop around the Thames and it took, you know, just over half an hour. The business was not interesting, I mean it was some sort of property….actually Manish I should have sent it to you hahaha…
Manish: I’ll get the invite to the Thames maybe…
Jana: But that definitely caught my attention. And I’m not saying that you know, copy-cat that one but… you like have to stand out. Because otherwise you are just drowning. Well for me, drowning in those emails and if someone just chased me saying like I haven’t heard back and I think that email just sort of disappeared, I apologize can you send me the pitch deck again but…So you have to stand out somehow. And you know, someone recently emailed me in Russian. I’m Russian and unfortunately it was done via Google translate so it was a terrible, bad idea. Don’t do that. But they offered me a…well I hope they are not listening because…well in fact it was a taxi sharing business in a remote village in Italy. But they said that if I invest, I would get one and a half kilograms of gorgonzola cheese as a bonus. Now…I mean (laughs) it was hilarious. It certainly caught my attention. I mean, I like, you know I replied in the nicest possible way saying its not for me, thank you very much but you know I keep talking about it like a week later. That definitely caught my attention so…I mean, don’t send me cheese. But just try to stand out. Not in a too cheesy way.
Raquel: Great, thank you. That was funny. And how about you Manish?
Manish: Uh, yea, well you know I would quite enjoy having people invite me to walk on the Thames in London. So yea, I’m happy for those invites. Cheese, given we invest in vegan business that might be a bit controversial. Unless its vegan cheese. But um, yea I think you are right. That is probably one of the main points. Yes, try to be unique. And I think often, it is not a…I know there is a lot of press about a lot of companies raising a lot of money and you know, multi million pound valuations that’s on the news, etc. But actually, raising money is not an easy thing, And I respect any entrepreneur who is trying to raise money. So I think, if you can kind of get in a position where you have got a few anchor investors or other investors alongside of you. And you say to us, okay look we are ready to raise x, we’ve already got a bit of momentum and we would like to get this closed off by this date. Would you be interested? I think that can also be a good sign. The traction is there. Because often times what does happen is an entrepreneur is set to raise, I don’t know, £250,000 and they come to us and we often give then an offer letter for let’s say £50 or £100,000. And then we are sort of sitting on that offer letter for two to three months. So I think just showing that traction, showing who you have spoken to, confirming that there are other pots of cash that can be utilized. I think that’s also a great thing. That’s super helpful.
Raquel: Okay well thank you so much Jana and Manish for your chat today. I think people are going to be really excited and they will find this very useful. I will link that blog that Jana spoke about and you know, their backgrounds. So thank you both for coming onto The Clean Chat. Yea, no thank you. And if that is it, I hope you all have a great day. Viva clean beauty everyone!